Fashion Shoot Locations and Permits
December 18th, 2009Ok so you’ve got a great idea for a fashion shoot and now all you need is a great location. Or your client and you develop a concept for the ad campaign or look book and you need a great location. Easy enough right ? Well if you hire a producer all you do as the photographer is sit back and let your producer find you a location. However, when you are first starting out you aren’t getting gigs with budgets big enough to hire a producer. So what to do ? You get in your car and drive !
Every time I get in my car and go somewhere I am always looking around where ever I go. Remember when I said photographers have eyes in the back of their heads ? It’s true ! I carry a little point and shoot camera with me and if I see a place that I think is cool I snap a few pics and keep them in a folder on my computer titled “locations.”
Ok so that is the easy part. Now you have to get permission to shoot on the property. When I say property I don’t exactly mean a house or a hotel or someplace recognizable, most of the time I am talking about a piece of land in the middle of no where! Nowadays there isn’t one piece of empty land that isn’t owned by someone or some entity. It sucks if you ask me.
This ever popular photo was shot in Palm Desert. I made a few calls and found out the location is actually Riverside County. So I called the office of Riverside and the kind woman faxed me the papers to obtain a permit. I faxed those to my client and he took care of the rest. The permit cost $400. The price of permits vary from county to county. The price also varies depending on how many people in your crew, if you are going to use an RV, if your are going to use a generator , if you are going to use fire…. blah blah blah. Now of course the permit is paid by your client NOT by you. You MUST put that in your contract.
Another popular photo was shot at Sycamore Beach in Ventura County. Now listen to this. You’re gonna laugh. The permit to shoot on the beach during the day is $65. It goes up much more if you are shooting your look book or ad campaign at night. A park ranger MUST be there at all times, so that is an extra cost. The model was in at least ankle deep water so we had to hire a lifeguard !!!!! HA HA HA ! California is in so much debt at this time, you will get charged for EVERY little thing. We had a really large RV so that added to the cost. So the total cost of the permit came to $1,200 !!!!!! WTF ? !!!! Now obviously I don’t have to pay for this but that affects my fee, and everyone else involved with the shoot. The client has a fit and suddenly everyone’s fee is questioned. The solution ? Get to know someone who lives on the beach so you don’t have to mess with all the bullshit. That ranger and lifeguard had the easiest job that night they will ever have. We started hair and make up at 7pm and started shooting at 8:30 and ended at 3:30am. Ya fun friggin night. Really glamourous, uh huh………
December 18th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
California is nuts about their permits and what constitutes the need for one – like any sort of tripod or light stand. I mean, technically, a tourist using a cheap-o tripod from target and a point and shoot to get family vacation shots needs a permit, and when I lived in California, I witnessed just that.
Now I’m back in Austin, shooting on random locations for personal work is much, much easier. And when there is a need for a permit – much, much cheaper!
My advice for the beginners out there who can’t afford the permit fees, go guerrilla style, sweet talk security guards, and smile when asking for permission.
Barter if you have to. Hell, I’ve snapped off some real estate images as a trade for some locations, and it works.
So long as you’re not rolling with an entourage, and spreading out a dozen C-stands, you can get the OK to be in and out of a location most of the time.
But always at least ask permission, and if you have one, get a property release.
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Rob Greer Reply:
December 21st, 2009 at 8:44 am
> My advice for the beginners out there
> who can’t afford the permit fees, go
> guerrilla style …
That’s some great advice for beginners–not. So you’re telling folks to
break the law and thereby make it it harder and more expensive for legitimate photographers to gain access to locations?
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Jason Christopher Reply:
December 21st, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Rob I couldn’t agree with you more. Read my reply to Destry.
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Jason Christopher Reply:
December 21st, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Hi Destry,
Thank you for writing. I love all my readers, even the ones who have disagreed with me. In regards to this post by you I have to STRONGLY disagree with you about “guerrilla” sty;e shooting.
There are two kinds of shoots. One is a test shoot and the other is a paid job, advertising photography, editorial photography, catalog photography etc. Now this is my view on “guerrilla” style shooting is …. I HATE it and don’t condone it at all. Let’s take our first example, the ever popular fashion test shoot. I say this over and over, PLAN PLAN PLAN ! If you are serious about your photography then you should plan every shot all the way down to the color of the friggin toenails of the models. That means planning your lighting, styling, make up etc. I don’t care how many of you say you don’t need to prepare and that is too restricting blah blah blah blah. You’re all full of crap and scared to seriously prepare for a shoot. Do you think motion pictures are made that way ? Hell no. When I do a test shoot, it’s not with just a few people and one or two ideas. My test shoots are shot just like I would be shooting a REAL job.
You would NEVER NEVER NEVER shoot “guerrilla” style on a real job. At least you better not, because you will never be hired again and your shoot will look like shit.
When shooting outdoors there are so many elements the photographer must deal with. You have weather, clouds, sun, heat, cold, rain, or a combination of all of those elements !
The ONLY thing I wanna be thinking about on my shoots is the models in front of my lens and the shot. If I have to constantly be looking over my shoulder for cops do you really think my shoot is gonna turn out great ? The answer is NO.
Now, I’m not saying that when I do a test shoot I don’t stray from some of my original ideas. I’m flexible and should be. My definition of “guerrilla” shooting is a paparazzi photographer, and I hate all of them and don’t respect them at all. They are not real photographers, and photo journalists who ARE real photographers.
On a fashion test shoot I have lighting to set up, props, make up changes that cannot be done on a street corner, especially on Hollywood and Vine lol, if you’ve never been to Hollywood and Vine or Sunset and Vine it’s hooker hang out. I also have assistants, wardrobe stylist, a whole crew. And if you aren’t shooting with a whole crew good luck on getting a great shoot.
Now that you have heard all my reasons against shooting “guerrilla” style for a test shoot, think about a real editorial shoot or ad campaign. OMG on an ad campaign or catalog or editorial shoot I have the client with their assistants, I have the models, sometimes with their mothers or their assistants, I have at least two assistants, make up, hair, wardrobe and an intern to make runs to Starbucks or Samy’s etc. Oh and sometimes I have a digital tech with a whole work station. If you can come up with a way to shoot “guerrilla” style with all those elements you could literally make a fortune and go down in history lol.
I don’t know about other states but sweet talking and snapping a few shots for trade WILL NOT WORK. Why won’t it work ? Because this country is so god d damn litigious that if someone on my crew sprains an ankle they are gonna sue the state of Calif, me and god knows who else. And Destry, permit fees usually are not that much money. To shoot on the beach during the day, it’s $65. And if it’s more, you tell everyone on the crew to pitch in, INCLUDING the models. The shoot isn’t just for the photographer, it’s for everyone which means everyone will get photos. If they don’t wanna pitch in, then guess what ? That person or persons will not even get one low res file from me. Don’t worry Destry I still like ya. I’m just very intense and have been doing this a loooooooong time and I know what works and what doesn’t.
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December 18th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jason Christopher , DFJ Photo. DFJ Photo said: @fashion_shooter has a quickie on location shooting and permits http://bit.ly/4zxq36 [...]
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:04 am
hey jason, just curious as to why, for that beach bikini night shoot, why didn’t you just shoot it during the day, but adjust the exposure to make it appear as night? Motion pictures shoot day-for-night quite often due to production schedules, etc. As long as the sun isn’t in the shot anywhere or it’s not high noon, you can usually make a shot look like night through underexposure.
Seems like a lot of the issues you described on that shoot, i.e. permit costs and freezing cold, etc. could have been solved by shooting day for night
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Jason Christopher Reply:
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:19 am
Hi Antonio,
Very good question. That’s what I wanted to do, shoot day for night but, budgets have been cut so much that they wouldn’t give me enough money for a big enough crew etc. Plus the designer really wanted that pitch black look and out here in Los Angeles when you shoot a beautiful girl in skimpy swim wear you get massive amounts of onlookers and that would have meant having to hire security etc.
I gotta admit that shooting stills or motion pictures in California is a real pain in the ass. I used to get really pissed off that production companies shoot in Canada or Australia, etc. because I used to work in the movie industry so it affected me.
But now I totally understand why production is taken out of the state more and more. California is one very messed up state in that so much so I don’t think we will ever recover.
Great question and thank you for reading my blog
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December 22nd, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Jason,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I’ve been a long time follower of your work, and this blog. I didn’t intend to stir up controversy on my first ever response to one of your articles, but hey, that’s the beauty of the web 2.0 thing, right? To share, be social, and engage readers.
First things first, it should be clarified that when I say guerilla style, I mean creatively exploring your city and using publicly accessible places as settings – parking garages, alley ways, etc. I DO NOT mean, or condone jumping fences, or otherwise trekking into places that you clearly should not be in. BIG NO NO!
Second of all, my advice was directed to beginners, who I’m sure read this blog, hence the “my advice to beginners …” (note the keyword).
Thirdly, I never once said, “Go guerilla style on a paid gig.” Anyone who would even think of winging it on a paid job, would most definitely *not* be around very long at all.
Let’s face it, shooting guerilla style happens and will continue to happen. It’s a crude, unconventional, and impromptu method that moves light and quick and is never to be used on paid shoots. It’s a way for most amateur photographers to get practice and build a body of work, not to mention learn how to be creative, and deal with challenges on the fly (which I’m sure you’ll agree, is a valuable skill on a real job).
As I said originally, beginners aren’t rolling with an entourage of assistants, techs, and stylists, nor are they packing much gear. It’s usually the photographer, a “model”, and a backpack. Sometimes, if the guy is lucky, he’s got a friend to hold a reflector, and that’s it. Just a couple of regular people armed with a camera, an idea, and a driving ambition to make the best images possible.
Whether it’s a set of interesting bay doors at a loading dock, or a secluded beach at sunset, beginners shoot when and where they can. These shooters should NOT be grouped in with paparazzi – OUCH! They simply want to be where you and others are, so they’re out there trying, and learning.
What did you do before working with Jerry Avenaim? Do you mean to tell me that in your early days of shooting, you didn’t dabble in the guerilla style? Not once? That when you were learning, shooting non-paid, book building, technique practicing images, you got permits to shoot on the beach, in an empty parking garage, or on the side of a building? Maybe you did, but most don’t.
Most beginners don’t even think about the need for permits, and if they do, they usually think that A) permits are expensive, and B) they’re only given to the legitimate pros which makes them A) expensive. A beginner will rarely take the time to find out how easy and affordable a permit actually is, because they’re only interested in gaining more experience by shooting more images.
I know how much work goes into a photo shoot, and I agree completely – plan, plan, plan! I know how important it is to have all of your bases covered along with a plan B and sometimes plan C. I remember my very first real gig. I planned everything, I tested everything, I rented a studio, I got fully insured, I had a crew – I covered my bases all the way down to backup equipment, and I nailed it! No one could tell that it was my first real job because I had my shit together. Getting paid jobs is what I had been working so hard for, and I wasn’t going to screw it up. Planning a shoot in detail, down to the toenails as you put it comes with experience, and beginners don’t usually have that level of experience or organization.
I guess we all pave our own path. I cut my teeth shooting on locations and being friendly with the right people, and it worked for me. I did my homework, worked my ass off, never low-balled, and never settled – and it paid off. I still remember what it’s like in the beginning, when you’re still trying to evolve to the next level. When all you have is a bullshit job you hate, a wannabe model who can’t pose, and a burning desire to make it as a photographer. You shoot, you learn, you adjust, you do it again, and you make it work.
We all have to start somewhere, and there aren’t enough Jerry Avenaims to go around. So as a photographer, when your city is full of interesting places that beckon you to make something awesome, ambition doesn’t tell you to stop and think about it – ambition just tells you to shoot.
Once again, Jason, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this matter, thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts, and thank you also for loading this blog full of useful and valuable insight.
Happy Holidays
-d
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Jason Christopher Reply:
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Hi Destri, you make some very good points. I wasn’t offended by your post and didn’t take it as trying to stir up controversy
It’s all good bro. You actually have helped me see your point better now. And I apologize if I came across as too harsh or angry. I’m Italian so I get too intense sometimes lol. By reading your reply it helped me remember when I did first start shooting. No I didn’t pull permits but if I did shoot things around the city it was things I was shooting, not things with models in the shot. I also like to shoot landscapes and colored doors etc. You know, different or odd objects. I’m VERY happy to hear that for your first gig you got insured and took all the correct steps. It only makes all of us photographers look more professional and not just artists with no business sense.
Happy Holidays to you too my friend. And please don’t let this one instance hold you back from commenting and contributing to this blog. I am here to help and also learn as well from everyone. Shit I don’t know everything lol
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Destry Jaimes Reply:
December 23rd, 2009 at 7:47 am
No worries, Jason
I like a good healthy discussion. It’s fun.
Just thought I’d try to clear up my point of view, which I guess I was successful at doing.
And of course I’ll keep coming back and commenting on this blog – you don’t scare me
Rock on
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Jason Christopher Reply:
December 24th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Awesome Destry. I love a good healthy discussion as well
I really do look forward to more comments and thoughts from you. Take a look through my archives. There is a wealth of information awaiting.
Cheers mate !
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December 23rd, 2009 at 11:29 pm
thanks jason that was just what i was looking for, the locations you have chosen for the night beach shoot was perfect,God bro your lighting is amazing!!! you have some awesome shoots!!!
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Jason Christopher Reply:
December 24th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Wow ! Thank you Art. I’m flattered. I really am. I am still humble and will always be. Always remember where you came from because it only takes one kick of a shoe to send ya back
You read the post that shows the lighting diagram from one of those beach shots right ?
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December 27th, 2009 at 1:12 am
Wow glad I read this post before my shoot on Wednesday. I’m still in school and was debating between getting a permit and risking getting thrown out of the train station.
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Jason Christopher Reply:
December 31st, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Hi Melly,
Did you have your shoot yet? I’m glad you read the post too. This is my point about new pho
tographers. You MUST learn not just how to use a camera but also the business side. My God your running a business! Please let me know if you have shot already and how it went.
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Melly Lee Reply:
December 31st, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Hi Jason,
Getting a permit wasn’t in my budget and the dj I was supposed to shoot had to spin at the radio that day. We rescheduled the shoot to Saturday and I’ll be using the lobby of my old apartment complex
I’ll be safe working there.
– Melly
I’ll keep you updated!
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Jason Christopher Reply:
January 4th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Hi Melly,
How was your shoot ?
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January 5th, 2010 at 4:14 am
Hi Jason,
The shoot went well (I will be blogging about it soon). I shot it in the lobby of my old apartment and kept it simple. Just a portrait of a guy chilling on a sofa.
– Melly
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January 8th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
This question isn’t related to your night shot, but still if you could answer this, I’d greatly appreciate it:
How do they make these daylight bikini shots on the beach with subject well exposted and not too contrasty:
http://cdn.missuniverse.com/media/photos/galleries/detail.gallery_photo1249674684philippines_2.jpg
When I do that kind of photography, all I get is squinched eyes, no shadow detail in hair, and just weird orangy skincast.
I’m suspecting a tent+softbox lights, or is there something else to it?
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Jason Christopher Reply:
January 13th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Hi Dmitri,
Well your question could be answered in a few ways. In THIS particular shot I can see the sky is very cloudy and the moment the photographer clicked the shutter the sun was behind a large cloud which creates a huge over head diffuse silk so the model wouldn’t be squinting at that point of course.
Now, IF the sun was shining bright what I would do is set up a 12×12 silk on high roller stands to lower the contrast ratio. You actually could get away with a 6×6 silk too. Make sure you have sand bags to hold that down because it then becomes one huge parachute lol. So then yes I would use a medium soft-box or a large soft-box as my main light and you would end up with a photo like the one in this link.
As far as your orange skin color I think that is just a matter of setting the correct white balance on the camera. Another reason I really do not like digital. When I used film I would choose the appropriate film based on my shooting conditions and the effect I was going for. I also now use a color checker board and take a shot under the lighting conditions I am shooting under and in Lightroom I click the 18% gray square to set my white balance. It’s all one big pain in the ass to me but for some odd reason many guys love doing all this lol. I hope i answered your question. If you need more help just upload a photo of yours in question to a link like you did with this one so I can get a more detailed visual of your exact issues.
Thank you Dmitri !
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February 12th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Great points. It’s like this everywhere. In Hawaii, you need permits from the state to shoot on the beach. But, as soon as you step from the sand to the park grass, it’s a different city & county agency you have to get a permit from.
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admin Reply:
February 12th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Yep the laws are different for every county and state. Good point.
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July 30th, 2010 at 11:29 am
That’s a good article. Am doing a shoot for a magazine, will have to check weather I need a permit in UK to shoot in the graveyard
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December 3rd, 2010 at 7:56 pm
Your photos and blog are just awesome. As a wedding and portrait photographer in San Jose, I know that it’s challenging photographing outstanding pictures. I’ll definitely comeback to keep checking your site.
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Jason Christopher Reply:
March 8th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
Thank you very much Bennett !
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